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Main Release: Team Finances

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  • Main Release: Team Finances

    This is the first of many topics specific to the main release. These features will not be available in the early access version of the game (early 2018) but this is your chance to have a real impact of the future of the game. As I design the new features, I’ll be creating new forum topics to briefly describe our plans and see what you think.

    One of the most boring and tedious tasks in Football Identity was having to offer contracts and buy players with your massive team budgets. We think that being a manager should require you to do more than just set formations and make the occasional substitution. Saying that, we don’t want to go to the other extreme and make it as time consuming and complex as the Football Manager series.
    We want to simplify being the financial side of being a manager, but still keep it engaging and give you that sense of achievement when your team starts climbing up the league table. So I’ve split this into 2 parts: earning money & spending money.

    Earning money

    Gate receipts
    For all of your home games you’ll receive a fixed fee for the stadium tickets sold. I’m thinking this figure should also be proportional to your UDP.
    Tournament winnings
    This is where you earn the big bucks. The higher you place in the league or cup competition, the more you’ll get.

    Spending money

    Player wages
    Nothing complicated here. Each player receives weekly wages and can spend that money on cosmetic items.
    Stadium upgrades
    To increase your stadium capacity and gate receipt income, you can invest in upgrading your stadium.
    Training ground upgrades
    To boost the training progression of players in your team, you can invest in upgrading your training ground.

    One thing you may have noticed missing from both lists is transfer fees. On one hand it adds another level of realism and another challenge for managers to negotiate etc. The problem from a game owner perspective is that it opens up the possibility for cheating and unsporting behaviour. So we could have something like NBA system where players have to honour their contracts. It does feel like the lazy option not to have transfer fees but what do you think?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Tirath View Post
    So we could have something like NBA system where players have to honour their contracts. It does feel like the lazy option not to have transfer fees but what do you think?
    Rather than that have transfer fees relative to the contract the player possess. So, yes their may be unfair behaviour, but star players are going to cost a team a lot of money, so transferring between two teams to assist them in the same week, for example, would be very expensive and maybe only work once or twice depending on how successful the teams are.

    To this day remains my greatest achievement of my FID career.

    Comment


    • #3
      Could you not just keep transfer fees and when you see a transfer much cheaper or much more expensive than a player value, you, as an admin, just revert the transfer? Or make it automated so you cannot offer x% below or above the player's value.

      Comment


      • #4
        Just let me play already :babyrage:

        Comment


        • #5
          For beggining is a good aproach imo, maybe later can be tuned and get to the best option.
          weekely salary can be a substitute to the transfer fee in the finance area.

          Comment


          • #6
            Regarding finances, this is one of the systems that I wanted to dramatically expand on compared to our predecessor. Wage budget was based on nothing other than league position, transfer budget was pointless by Season 8 or so as every team has 1 billion - and that was the limit of the depth that we got. So, I'm gonna outline a couple of things that I'd like to bring to the table on this one.

            Wage Budget
            This should be a daily outgoing. If a player trains, and only if they train, they claim their wages and it comes straight out of your club's balance. This includes previous days where the player did not train the first 2 days, but trained the 3rd using all 3 stored sessions. The reason for this is simple, if your player is inactive - you don't get penalized for it.

            I would also have no wage cap, you can pay people whatever you like - but the second your club is in the red, administrators come in and all players are on reduced wages. To combat wagewhoring players, I have 3 methods to reduce this. First off, training salary like on FID will have very diminishing returns. If a recommended wage for an 18 year old is 1 thousand, and you pay them 1m, they will not train 1000% better, but maybe an extra 10% or so. Secondly, clubs will have levels. A level 1 club cannot pay anything more than 10k, a level 2 club more than 30k etc. These are just made up numbers, so don't worry too much but the point I'm trying to get across is that someone cannot make a new club, give out a 1m contract for one player, and rinse and repeat the next day. Building up a club takes time - so should financial stability and the ability to throw those contracts out. I know this contradicts the first thing I said about no wage cap, but I think you can get that after a certain amount of time. If you want to take 6 months getting your club to that stage and then torching it for a couple of days of training for one player, be my guest. Third, training grounds. We want to impact the outcome of how well your stats increase based on the level of the club's TG, so a new club would be harming a player's development if his skill level is far beyond what should be at that club.

            Transfer Budget
            This has to be something we include. NBA style is interesting, but this is a football game son. Even if it does say soccer. T's been busy the last couple of weeks so we've not had a chance to sit down and talk about details, which is why this one escaped me before it got to the forums so although we've already had our backroom discussions, this one is going to be a bit more public than normal and you guys get the chance to see what he has to deal with

            Without a transfer market, you are greatly removing one of the methods of a smaller team increasing their funds, and actively removing an encouraging tool for younger players to ply their trade at a "smaller" club. Moving players on so you can buy an upgrade to your East Stand, or to your merchandising so that your club will be more financially viable long term is something that I greatly want to include in the game and to do that, we need the transfer market else it will literally be a game of catch up with the clubs that have been around the longest out in front.

            On the flip side, you need to encourage newer players to join the clubs too - which is why I also want it included so that 18 year old players aren't punished for playing in clubs with lower Training Grounds. That has to be an almost symbiotic relationship. Newer clubs need new players, and we can't make it too easy for people just to park their 18 year olds in an already established club. 19 year olds would be punished a little, but only if the club doesn't have the most basic of levels in Training Grounds and this will keep increasing until realistically, you'll be a 22 year old who needs to move on to a bigger club to further his career - and his training.

            A big part of the transfer market will be player value, which I do think can be etched down in a fairly decent formula taking into account things many variables - butI won't get into that here, because that's totally another huge discussion for another time. I did already have the idea that Mini said though about how players should have a max and min value of 50% to 200% of their player value. As player value will be quite dynamic and change on a daily basis, I don't know where I stand on release fees whether it can be any value, or a if it would be a percentage of the player's current value, or maybe we give the manager both as a tool for contract negotiations. But like I said, discussion for another time.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Wickerbasket View Post
              Wage Budget
              This should be a daily outgoing. If a player trains, and only if they train, they claim their wages and it comes straight out of your club's balance. This includes previous days where the player did not train the first 2 days, but trained the 3rd using all 3 stored sessions. The reason for this is simple, if your player is inactive - you don't get penalized for it.

              Transfer Budget
              Without a transfer market, you are greatly removing one of the methods of a smaller team increasing their funds, and actively removing an encouraging tool for younger players to ply their trade at a "smaller" club. Moving players on so you can buy an upgrade to your East Stand, or to your merchandising so that your club will be more financially viable long term is something that I greatly want to include in the game and to do that, we need the transfer market else it will literally be a game of catch up with the clubs that have been around the longest out in front.

              On the flip side, you need to encourage newer players to join the clubs too - which is why I also want it included so that 18 year old players aren't punished for playing in clubs with lower Training Grounds. That has to be an almost symbiotic relationship. Newer clubs need new players, and we can't make it too easy for people just to park their 18 year olds in an already established club. 19 year olds would be punished a little, but only if the club doesn't have the most basic of levels in Training Grounds and this will keep increasing until realistically, you'll be a 22 year old who needs to move on to a bigger club to further his career - and his training.
              That is strange.
              When I finished reading Tirath's post, I had this 2 suggestion in my mind!

              Totally agree with James.
              1) A player should be paid by day, exactly as James said. My suggestion is that after 1 week of inactivity, a player loses the week money. So if a player is inactive for 3 weeks, he will not have the option of coming back for 1 day and take money from the team for the 3 inactive weeks!!

              2) About transfer budget. I think too that is a winner for a small team to earn some money. Teams like Monaco or Ajax earn big bucks by just investing in young players and then selling them.
              The problem here, is to find a balance between contracts. I don't have an idea till now. But I will think of it.

              That's from me!!! GO GO GO! ^_^
              Last edited by Wazzaa; 16-07-17, 08:09 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Wages need to affect something more than training too. When you get your wages, you should actually keep that money and then have things you can spend that money on (whether it's cosmetics or other things), so the people who are good at the game can ask the club for more money (like IRL, and if they don't see it as a good deal, the player will leave) and then the players earning the big bucks can show it off.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Haha I knew that was coming from James. No topic for a few weeks was bound to make his brain explode :minglee:


                  Agree with everything said so far. It's quite tricky to talk about team finances without going into player wages and then going into player development curves. They're all closely connected but lets try to stick to the topic! We'll go more into the player side of things in the next topic.

                  One thing I missed was the starting budget of a team. So the scenario is that you create a manager and decide to start your own team from scratch. What resources do you think would be required to be able to create a solid base for your club. You need enough money there to give the manager time to build his squad before he enters a tournament. But you dont want to give them too much money so they can just farm a few youngsters without having to join a tournament. I'm thinking enough money to have about fifteen 18 year olds for a month. Remember new players are less reliable so they will probably have to experiment with quite a few players in a short space of time. Thoughts?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mini Miudo View Post
                    Wages need to affect something more than training too. When you get your wages, you should actually keep that money and then have things you can spend that money on (whether it's cosmetics or other things), so the people who are good at the game can ask the club for more money (like IRL, and if they don't see it as a good deal, the player will leave) and then the players earning the big bucks can show it off.
                    You don't think people would look to leave a smaller club for a larger one to increase their player development and longevity? I would. I bet most that knew about that too would also do the same. I do agree though, and I've already had thoughts of having categories like "career earnings" and things like that on the leaderboard. I also agree about buying cosmetics, and think that'll be a staple of what we do regarding avatars. Can't just have premium items on there. Any other ideas like that would be accepted with open arms too I think, though obviously buying shiny boots will not increase your stats.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Wickerbasket View Post

                      You don't think people would look to leave a smaller club for a larger one to increase their player development and longevity? I would. I bet most that knew about that too would also do the same. I do agree though, and I've already had thoughts of having categories like "career earnings" and things like that on the leaderboard. I also agree about buying cosmetics, and think that'll be a staple of what we do regarding avatars. Can't just have premium items on there. Any other ideas like that would be accepted with open arms too I think, though obviously buying shiny boots will not increase your stats.
                      Next weeks topic is on player wages, so save your ideas for then

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Wickerbasket View Post

                        You don't think people would look to leave a smaller club for a larger one to increase their player development and longevity? I would. I bet most that knew about that too would also do the same. I do agree though, and I've already had thoughts of having categories like "career earnings" and things like that on the leaderboard. I also agree about buying cosmetics, and think that'll be a staple of what we do regarding avatars. Can't just have premium items on there. Any other ideas like that would be accepted with open arms too I think, though obviously buying shiny boots will not increase your stats.
                        James, this is a two side story. You know very well from FID Experience people bond together, form groups , friendship, because language barrier still exists for a lot of users.
                        If you need to leave your lower club for a bigger one just to develop faster but lose the joy of playing together with your friends.. this is not what you want in this game(basic users- one slot ). Maybe the solution is to buy more slots .
                        Also the wage need to be in close relation with training (already confirmed) and with the wage player will buy items for his development ( perfect solution).
                        Missing training - no wage - also a retaining user method- nice !
                        Selling players- auctions or intersezonal activity- you choose the best way.
                        Bear in mind always the main goal- retaining new users- else the project will fail.. and i don't want to see this ..i have big faith

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cristian1980 View Post
                          James, this is a two side story. You know very well from FID Experience people bond together, form groups , friendship, because language barrier still exists for a lot of users.
                          If you need to leave your lower club for a bigger one just to develop faster but lose the joy of playing together with your friends.. this is not what you want in this game(basic users- one slot ). Maybe the solution is to buy more slots .
                          We're not forcing players to leave their clubs. Some players will prefer the fun of playing with friends and not worry too much if they have slightly worse training than others. But if you stick together for a long time, then you will be able to upgrade your training ground and you wouldn't suffer the training decreases as much.
                          Other players will want to be the best of the best and compete for titles without worrying too much about what team they play in. We are just trying to get that balance so both types of people are satisfied.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cristian1980 View Post

                            James, this is a two side story. You know very well from FID Experience people bond together, form groups , friendship, because language barrier still exists for a lot of users.
                            If you need to leave your lower club for a bigger one just to develop faster but lose the joy of playing together with your friends.. this is not what you want in this game(basic users- one slot ). Maybe the solution is to buy more slots .
                            Also the wage need to be in close relation with training (already confirmed) and with the wage player will buy items for his development ( perfect solution).
                            Missing training - no wage - also a retaining user method- nice !
                            Selling players- auctions or intersezonal activity- you choose the best way.
                            Bear in mind always the main goal- retaining new users- else the project will fail.. and i don't want to see this ..i have big faith
                            Yeah, what James means is there'll be some people who wanna progress with their career (e.g. Ronaldo, who went Nacional -> Sporting -> Man. United -> Real Madrid), but obviously there'll always be the loyal players who wanna play with their friends (e.g. Totti, who refused offers from teams such as Real Madrid and stayed his whole career at Roma). You won't, and can't, be forced to leave.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              As already said, if you have a bunch of players who grow and support your club regardless of wages because they're your friends and just want to play together then you already have a huge advantage over most other managers. We aren't looking to break that up, but at the same time if you have a 28 year old world class player in his prime who wants to come to your club to boost it, that has to come with some sacrifice. The same as we don't want the "better" option to be having an 18 year old rotting in the reserves at a top club, we want it to be at least on par with a smaller club to encourage people to play with those characters, not punish them for doing so.

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